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What happened to RTAW?

Post here any ideas, feedback or queries you have in regard to MASA (including Reefing the Australian Way). This forum is not for reef aquaria related questions.

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What happened to RTAW?

Postby locuus » Tue 29 Jul, 2014 11:45 pm

I rarely come on here anymore, and like many other Reefers I talk to, if I do it's just to check the Classifieds. When I first started Reefing this place was full of sound advice, and more to the point interesting posts on topics I would then research for days. Now if I want to be stimulated I head to Reef Central. That's a sad state of affairs to me. How's it possible for a forum to go so far south? When I first started the Advanced Discussion was full of posts only by the most knowledgeable and experienced, like Tone or DR DBW on topics I barely often had an inkling on. Now it's full of "why aren't my biopellets working?" or the upteenth post on vodka. I'm not going to go near some of the amazing tanks that seem to be overlooked because their not in the right clique, and thus what often then gets praised. This forum needs a kick in the ass!
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Re: What happened to RTAW?

Postby angel101 » Wed 30 Jul, 2014 12:09 am

Agreed. Back in the day there was a lot more humour too. It was genuinely entertaining. Guess the political correctness sorted that out.
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Re: What happened to RTAW?

Postby terbit » Wed 30 Jul, 2014 12:23 am

locuus wrote:I rarely come on here anymore, and like many other Reefers I talk to, if I do it's just to check the Classifieds. When I first started Reefing this place was full of sound advice, and more to the point interesting posts on topics I would then research for days. Now if I want to be stimulated I head to Reef Central. That's a sad state of affairs to me. How's it possible for a forum to go so far south? When I first started the Advanced Discussion was full of posts only by the most knowledgeable and experienced, like Tone or DR DBW on topics I barely often had an inkling on. Now it's full of "why aren't my biopellets working?" or the upteenth post on vodka. I'm not going to go near some of the amazing tanks that seem to be overlooked because their not in the right clique, and thus what often then gets praised. This forum needs a kick in the ass!


Interesting comments, possibly more new to the hobby posting in the advanced discussion compared to when you 1st joined ?
As far as the right clique comment goes not sure where that is coming from?
There is reps on the PCS from all MASX societies which nominate and vote on the tanks nominated, myself included and to be honest there is no clique that I know of and if there was I couldn't give a Rats esrA and would vote for which one I thought deserved it!
Also curious to know which TOTM you disagree with?
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Re: What happened to RTAW?

Postby locuus » Wed 30 Jul, 2014 12:37 am

I don't really want to get into which tanks etc. All I will say is I see some reefers being feted because of their status whose tanks are not of a class I feel deserving of some of the honors given them, and this wouldn't have happened in the past.
I'm more concerned that I don't think these forums in any way compare anymore to the likes of RC and R2R, and I think that's a point of concern, considering this is supposed to be the focal point for Australian reefing. People can draw their own conclusions obviously as to why this has happened (or if it has).
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Re: What happened to RTAW?

Postby terbit » Wed 30 Jul, 2014 12:51 am

locuus wrote:I don't really want to get into which tanks etc. All I will say is I see some reefers being feted because of their status whose tanks are not of a class I feel deserving of some of the honors given them, and this wouldn't have happened in the past.
I'm more concerned that I don't think these forums in any way compare anymore to the likes of RC and R2R, and I think that's a point of concern, considering this is supposed to be the focal point for Australian reefing. People can draw their own conclusions obviously as to why this has happened (or if it has).


Fair enough and everyone is entitled to an opinion, in regards to a lot of tanks being overlooked yes I agree, there is some great tanks that have no chance of winning purely on the rules of compliance ie: TOTM must be a paid MASX member.
Maybe you could donate some of your time by volunteering, and help to improve the place to get it back to what you expect, and make it comparable to the sites you mentioned above?
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Re: What happened to RTAW?

Postby jayellul » Wed 30 Jul, 2014 12:55 am

Any awards should be determined by a vote from the community not just committee members. It's just dumb.
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Re: What happened to RTAW?

Postby locuus » Wed 30 Jul, 2014 1:02 am

terbit wrote:
locuus wrote:I don't really want to get into which tanks etc. All I will say is I see some reefers being feted because of their status whose tanks are not of a class I feel deserving of some of the honors given them, and this wouldn't have happened in the past.
I'm more concerned that I don't think these forums in any way compare anymore to the likes of RC and R2R, and I think that's a point of concern, considering this is supposed to be the focal point for Australian reefing. People can draw their own conclusions obviously as to why this has happened (or if it has).


Fair enough and everyone is entitled to an opinion, in regards to a lot of tanks being overlooked yes I agree, there is some great tanks that have no chance of winning purely on the rules of compliance ie: TOTM must be a paid MASX member.
Maybe you could donate some of your time by volunteering, and help to improve the place to get it back to what you expect, and make it comparable to the sites you mentioned above?
:cheers:


If it's just my opinion that these forums are less than what they should be, then it's irrelevant. I'd only volunteer if there was a change to the expectations of these forums. They've either either gone down hill for some reason or they haven't.
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Re: What happened to RTAW?

Postby coit » Wed 30 Jul, 2014 7:46 am

RTAW

Most users ever online was 431 on Thu 10 May, 2012 10:15 am

RC

Most users ever online was 63,642, 10/29/2013 at 12:13 AM

Really you'd be best off comparing RTAW to one of the reef club forums under http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=80 - probably find a comparable population and s/n to posts.
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Re: What happened to RTAW?

Postby Macca_75 » Wed 30 Jul, 2014 9:07 am

I'm with Locuus on this one. I've been lurking around for a while, but lost a lot of interest of late.

I've never been a paid member of a MASx as I don't see the value for me personally - I'm sure plenty of others do and don't have an issue with MASx groups.

However I do find it a bit hypocritical that I can volunteer my time, but can't be on any committee. As I am not a member of a MASx group I can't join any Group buys, can't vote for anything, can't hold any official position, etc.

I'd argue I've tried to add value in the majority of my posts over the years (whether it's right or wrong advice, it's not thousands of posts with a thumbs up ecomotion or similar like others on this board with mega high post counts).
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Re: What happened to RTAW?

Postby JohnoL » Wed 30 Jul, 2014 9:28 am

Macca_75 wrote:I'm with Locuus on this one. I've been lurking around for a while, but lost a lot of interest of late.

I've never been a paid member of a MASx as I don't see the value for me personally - I'm sure plenty of others do and don't have an issue with MASx groups.

However I do find it a bit hypocritical that I can volunteer my time, but can't be on any committee. As I am not a member of a MASx group I can't join any Group buys, can't vote for anything, can't hold any official position, etc.

I'd argue I've tried to add value in the majority of my posts over the years (whether it's right or wrong advice, it's not thousands of posts with a thumbs up ecomotion or similar like others on this board with mega high post counts).


:withyou: :thumbsup:

:roflmao:
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Re: What happened to RTAW?

Postby acronut » Wed 30 Jul, 2014 10:37 am

I agree with some of this and some i dont. for instance i accept the rules are the rules and as this site is established and ran by mas societies it is only fair that paid members enjoy the benefits, and unfortunatly totm is one of them.

however some of the things i agree with are things like post numbers,

Years spent on forums does not equate to experience and just because someone has racked up 1 million posts does not mean they have as much knowledge as potentially some one with 10 posts.

I also agree there is a clic and if certain opinions are against this clic you tend to be ignored or edited out, believe me i know :]

And it can be frustrating when someone whos tank looks like the sahara desert with some barren rocks and a couple of sticks tells me im wrong.

but all in all this is a top site and i think a credit to the mods and volunteers who donate their time to what can be a thankless job.

Keep up the good work guys :thumbsup:

ps. i never used emoticons in my life before joining this forum :roflmao:
Last edited by acronut on Wed 30 Jul, 2014 10:54 am, edited 2 times in total.
So sorry officer.... i wasnt aware tangs needed so much space :/

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Re: What happened to RTAW?

Postby jayellul » Wed 30 Jul, 2014 10:38 am

Macca_75 wrote:I'm with Locuus on this one. I've been lurking around for a while, but lost a lot of interest of late.

I've never been a paid member of a MASx as I don't see the value for me personally - I'm sure plenty of others do and don't have an issue with MASx groups.

However I do find it a bit hypocritical that I can volunteer my time, but can't be on any committee. As I am not a member of a MASx group I can't join any Group buys, can't vote for anything, can't hold any official position, etc.

I'd argue I've tried to add value in the majority of my posts over the years (whether it's right or wrong advice, it's not thousands of posts with a thumbs up ecomotion or similar like others on this board with mega high post counts).


:withyou:

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Re: What happened to RTAW?

Postby angel101 » Wed 30 Jul, 2014 10:40 am

Have spoken to old members who now rarely or never post and they say why bother? Too staid now. Great if you just want to see a photo of someone's new skimmer or Occie clown, but there isn't much for more advanced hobbyists. And before moderators queue up, it has nothing to so with how they are doing their jobs, or how people who aren't happy should volunteer their own time. That is irrelevant. I feel, that the policies on here, do tend to inhibit real debate though and this is the major reason why I agree that the forum is not a patch on how it used to be. People vote with their feet. We all know experienced reefers who no longer bother coming on here anymore.
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Re: What happened to RTAW?

Postby Tone » Wed 30 Jul, 2014 10:44 am

Macca_75 wrote:I'm with Locuus on this one. I've been lurking around for a while, but lost a lot of interest of late.

I've never been a paid member of a MASx as I don't see the value for me personally - I'm sure plenty of others do and don't have an issue with MASx groups.

However I do find it a bit hypocritical that I can volunteer my time, but can't be on any committee. As I am not a member of a MASx group I can't join any Group buys, can't vote for anything, can't hold any official position, etc.

I'd argue I've tried to add value in the majority of my posts over the years (whether it's right or wrong advice, it's not thousands of posts with a thumbs up ecomotion or similar like others on this board with mega high post counts).


The importance in joining up with a MASx is not about "the value for me personally", it is about helping to make a difference. The subscription is trifling but it opens the doors to further enjoyment and the satisfaction of maybe helping out in the general management of the Forum.

Yes, it does seem that RTAW is a bit flat right now, but, ReefCentral held as a beacon? ... it's like one giant beginners forum nowadays. I'm following a few of the FB's on the hobby ... there's nothing there of any value, just a lot of REAL ignorant babbling.

So, join up, volunteer, and make a difference!
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Re: What happened to RTAW?

Postby acronut » Wed 30 Jul, 2014 10:47 am

chris neill 1987 wrote:people say volenteer but thats a joke i have offered to help run potm more times then i can count


Mabe your not in the clic :roflmao:
So sorry officer.... i wasnt aware tangs needed so much space :/

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Re: What happened to RTAW?

Postby Tone » Wed 30 Jul, 2014 10:48 am

chris neill 1987 wrote:people say volenteer but thats a joke i have offered to help run potm more times then i can count


Chris ... just do it, don't wait to get approval. It's easier to apologise later than it is to miss the opportunity.
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Re: What happened to RTAW?

Postby jayellul » Wed 30 Jul, 2014 10:49 am

:withyou:
Tone wrote:
chris neill 1987 wrote:people say volenteer but thats a joke i have offered to help run potm more times then i can count


Chris ... just do it, don't wait to get approval. It's easier to apologise later than it is to miss the opportunity.
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Re: What happened to RTAW?

Postby locuus » Wed 30 Jul, 2014 11:04 am

Tone yes things have gone flat, and for quite a while. The question is why, and why nothing has been done to alter its course. For the last few years I haven't seen the powers that be come out and ask what needs to be fixed, what direction the forums should take, nor how it can be turned into a world class forum. If people are 'leaving' why? Debate has been stifled for a long time now it seems to me, and this clique whose job it was to steer the forums towards something better in their minds has failed to make it into something better. Thus the current state of affairs....
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Re: What happened to RTAW?

Postby some_one » Wed 30 Jul, 2014 11:18 am

Very interesting points here. It does seem that there hasn't been any ground-breaking advances and research in the hobby as of late compared to such things as understanding carbon dosing, DIY 2 part suppliments etc.

Joining you local MASx goes towards a lot of things other than just what appears on RTAW. MASWA just had their first large scale frag day last sunday. Over 100 frags were raffled off, probably another 100 or so frags were traded/sold by members and close to $3000 in prizes were given away. That sort of $$ needs to comes from somewhere and it always goes back to the members.

Chris give your MASS committee a nudge and get them to get the ball rolling on the POTM.

Also, a forum review was conducted last year (viewforum.php?f=181) and under Site Announcements, Questions, Comments and Suggestions (viewforum.php?f=55) you can always make your suggestions on how to improve RTAW
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Re: What happened to RTAW?

Postby Macca_75 » Wed 30 Jul, 2014 11:36 am

Tone wrote:The importance in joining up with a MASx is not about "the value for me personally", it is about helping to make a difference. The subscription is trifling but it opens the doors to further enjoyment and the satisfaction of maybe helping out in the general management of the Forum.

Happy to volunteer my time and help out any way I can, but I'm not wanting to pay for the privilege to do so. With the current rules in place, please let me know how I, a non MASx financial member, can assist with the forum.
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Re: What happened to RTAW?

Postby ryanrid » Wed 30 Jul, 2014 11:44 am

locuus wrote:I rarely come on here anymore, and like many other Reefers I talk to, if I do it's just to check the Classifieds. When I first started Reefing this place was full of sound advice, and more to the point interesting posts on topics I would then research for days. Now if I want to be stimulated I head to Reef Central. That's a sad state of affairs to me. How's it possible for a forum to go so far south? When I first started the Advanced Discussion was full of posts only by the most knowledgeable and experienced, like Tone or DR DBW on topics I barely often had an inkling on. Now it's full of "why aren't my biopellets working?" or the upteenth post on vodka. I'm not going to go near some of the amazing tanks that seem to be overlooked because their not in the right clique, and thus what often then gets praised. This forum needs a kick in the ass!


I guess if there are less long timers on here the less advanced discussion. This hobby seems to have a high turn around, where 2 years is quite long.

Re the tanks which are overlooked perhaps list them so PCS can find them, there are a lot of TJ out there which they can not go thru them all. :thumbsup:
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Re: What happened to RTAW?

Postby jayellul » Wed 30 Jul, 2014 11:58 am

ryanrid wrote:
locuus wrote:I rarely come on here anymore, and like many other Reefers I talk to, if I do it's just to check the Classifieds. When I first started Reefing this place was full of sound advice, and more to the point interesting posts on topics I would then research for days. Now if I want to be stimulated I head to Reef Central. That's a sad state of affairs to me. How's it possible for a forum to go so far south? When I first started the Advanced Discussion was full of posts only by the most knowledgeable and experienced, like Tone or DR DBW on topics I barely often had an inkling on. Now it's full of "why aren't my biopellets working?" or the upteenth post on vodka. I'm not going to go near some of the amazing tanks that seem to be overlooked because their not in the right clique, and thus what often then gets praised. This forum needs a kick in the ass!


I guess if there are less long timers on here the less advanced discussion. This hobby seems to have a high turn around, where 2 years is quite long.

Re the tanks which are overlooked perhaps list them so PCS can find them, there are a lot of TJ out there which they can not go thru them all. :thumbsup:


Or take nominations from the community for awards....
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Re: What happened to RTAW?

Postby oceanarium » Wed 30 Jul, 2014 12:18 pm

My 2c

Perhaps the forum is not so friendly as it once was but back then, the marine side of the hobby was less main stream and members were far fewer. There were no plug and play tanks, quite often to have any decent gear you had to make it yourself. Reefers were probably more dedicated and far fewer. Now days it is more open to the masses for good or bad that is how it is. You can quite easily buy a plug and play tank and post here tomorrow. We were all newby's once, I have found great guidance here over the years.

As for RC being better ?? I see the same thing there look at the reef chemistry forum, all you see is simple carbon dosing questions etc being answered again and again. They might have big names like Randy H F but he does seem to be answering lots of newby questions. Its a shame we don't have any big names in the hobby here but we are few and they are many. I find a balance of looking there and participating here. They have huge resources, a recent talk at our local MASWA club Kevin Erickson gave was quite enlightening just how much of a multi million dollar business MASNA actually is.

The forums are the public face of MASA non financial members miss all camaraderie and experiences of the monthly meetings face to face with friends and fellow reefers. They also miss the state based forums of there local club at least with MASWA far more friendly because it is a group you know personally. Perhaps you are missing the full experience ?

Sure there is always room to improve, but the public forum content is largely reflective of those who participate.

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Re: What happened to RTAW?

Postby galleri3090 » Wed 30 Jul, 2014 12:38 pm

Cool thread!

I agree RTAW has gone flat.

I sometimes question whether it is because I am more experienced now and aren't as interested in the "which skimmer should I buy" or "which LED is best" threads? or if generally the content is less interesting than what it used to be?

I found RC way before I found RTAW and have always acknowledge there are many better forums for technical, scientific advise but why I always gravitated back to MASA was its sense of community and local first hand experiences being shared.

From a community point of view .. just about every MASx is at record membership numbers and has been increasing year on year since I have been involved at a committee level so I guess that's a positive sign.

Our advertising revenue is also at a all time high and behind the scenes a lot of volunteers have for the first time in many years got our incorporation obligations up to date. God knows we try. This has enabled MASA and each MASx to give back in the way of prizes, events and to provide you with a free forum.

I guess our forum/community is only as strong as its members .. if you want a more interesting forum share you experiences and contribute any way you can.

We should also account for the prevalence of facebook. As a voluntary organization, things don't happen overnight but the volunteers try hard and mean well. I suggest we openly talk about what can be done to improve our forum, it is after all owned by it's members and we invite all feedback to make it the place you want it to be ..

:cheers:

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Re: What happened to RTAW?

Postby BlakeyBoyR » Wed 30 Jul, 2014 1:16 pm

I agree all awards should be decided by the community through a simple poll. This is no reflection on committees or anything, I just think it's the most fair and logical way of doing things.
I'd like for the forum to have more active members and a better 'profile' in Australian reefing, but I guess it's up to the forum members to make that happen. From the committees' perspectives, I can see how this thread may sound like "I'm going to complain about how the forum has gone down hill, but I refuse to pay a membership fee or contribute to the forum itself".
It'd be great if LFS, Wholesalers and Hobbyists alike all saw RTAW as THE place to discuss, help each other out and work for the benefit of the industry. I wish I knew what steps we could all take to make that happen.
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Re: What happened to RTAW?

Postby petergriffin » Wed 30 Jul, 2014 1:20 pm

I mainly use RTAW for MASWA. I have met some of my best friends through it and thd meetings are great and so are all the meetings we go to. Im sorry if you cant find the value in paying $30 for that.

Reef central advanced topics are a repeat of a lot of the same things over and over. But I do agree our advanced discussion is a little lack lustre of late but perhaps there is swing towards simplified reefing.

And contrary to people's belief the PC&S dont vote for who they like it Is for the best tank
And comparing our tank to those with pair of 20k peppermint angels and a full time person to maintain their tank isn't fair not do I believe it worthy as a person's contribution to the reefing community and effort put in also matters. Not how large wallet you have.

and if you are herd just to get TOTM I suggest you step back from the hobby for a while and asses why it is your doing this.
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Re: What happened to RTAW?

Postby BlakeyBoyR » Wed 30 Jul, 2014 1:33 pm

Joining MASS was one of the best decisions I've ever made. I've met awesome people by attending meetings. The feeling of camaraderie and knowing that everyone at that meeting is willing to help out and wants to see me get the most out of this hobby, is a great feeling.
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Re: What happened to RTAW?

Postby Polyps » Wed 30 Jul, 2014 1:36 pm

Vote 1 for change. Im a long time lurker who has started a new account cause I wanted a new name :nut:. This place need a shake up, Regardless of RC numbers RTAW is Australia's for front marine forum. I know more MASA members posting on other forums than on here. Why?? is what the people who can do something about it need to be asking. Rules defiantly need an update, EG. TOTM should be open to all, Paid members win homage, fame and prizes and TOTY eligibility, non members win TOTM banner under their MASA profile. Simple changes like this should prove beneficial in both forum activity, incentives and paid memberships; and yes 100% voted by community not comity (This is meant to be a reefing COMMUNITY). More experienced reefer need to also be a little more accommodating to newbies or questions that are often asked, posting a link to an older thread or disregarding the question and writing "parameters" as a response doesn't come across as very friendly or inviting of conversation; after all this is a forum not a information database. As angel101 said RTAW need to lighten up so discussions can be had, its almost as though people are afraid to post for reason or another. New times and new ideas are needed, MASWA recent frag auction sound so much more appealing than monthly meeting local reefers home with tea and biscuits.
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Re: What happened to RTAW?

Postby acronut » Wed 30 Jul, 2014 1:37 pm

i think this thread actually shows rtaw has not gone stale, rather just the posts of late have been a little boring...
So sorry officer.... i wasnt aware tangs needed so much space :/

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Re: What happened to RTAW?

Postby jayellul » Wed 30 Jul, 2014 1:38 pm

petergriffin wrote:I mainly use RTAW for MASWA. I have met some of my best friends through it and thd meetings are great and so are all the meetings we go to. Im sorry if you cant find the value in paying $30 for that.

Reef central advanced topics are a repeat of a lot of the same things over and over. But I do agree our advanced discussion is a little lack lustre of late but perhaps there is swing towards simplified reefing.

And contrary to people's belief the PC&S dont vote for who they like it Is for the best tank
And comparing our tank to those with pair of 20k peppermint angels and a full time person to maintain their tank isn't fair not do I believe it worthy as a person's contribution to the reefing community and effort put in also matters. Not how large wallet you have.

and if you are herd just to get TOTM I suggest you step back from the hobby for a while and asses why it is your doing this.


This does not seem to reflect in reality.
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jayellul
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