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Floating Tank Design - For something a little bit different!

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Floating Tank Design - For something a little bit different!

Postby callummc1 » Sat 18 Dec, 2010 3:59 pm

Hi all,

I believe that this is my first post to these forums, although I have been lurking in the background for a long, long time now.

For about 10 years my father a room in our house dedicated to saltwater tanks (about 10-15 years ago) and their inhabitants. I always loved them as a kid and our family used to spend hours sitting around the display tank in the lounge room just watching the wonders contained within. While my dad packed it all up many years ago when we moved house, I've always had the desire to run my own tank.

Several months ago I went into an aquarium with my better half and made a bit of a snap purchase - A Fluval Edge for tropical fish.

For those of you who haven't seen it, this is what it looks like :
Image

And you can see details of my current tropical tank at my better half's blog : http://kikichaos.com/house-home/edge/

After setting this up, it took me all of around 1 week to start thinking about what I could do with it as a saltwater tank.

I was inspired by the many nano reefers who experimented with this tank and managed to sustain a sucessful ecosystem, like the one below;

Image
[Minh Tran's Fluval Edge Marine Tank]

I have spent nearly every waking moment since then thinking about marine aquariums and studying current practises (a lot has changed since my Dad's time - he was an original canister filtration guy!) and now, several months and nearly 100,000 forum threads later I feel that I'm ready to take the plunge. (This was helped in part by my sister-in-law's other half Nick - whom I'm sure will be introducting himself soon - who saw my tank and said - wow, that's really cool, but we should make a bigger one !)

So the following tank design is inspired by the "Floating Tank" design of the Fluval Edge;

Image

The dimensions of the tank will be :
38L x 12H x 12D inches

The stand will be :
40L x 20H x 18D inches

Here are a couple more shots of the design.

From the top, providing a sense of the "floating" aspect;
Image

From the side, showing off the amazing "water cube" perspective;
Image

I see this as a fairly ambitious project. Nick and I are shooting for something that is both asthetically pleasing as well as virtually silent (we are each making one by the way!).

To align with our desire of "asthetically pleasing" the tank should contain nothing but sand, rock, corals and fish. This means that one of the challenges will be to completely hide the plumbing around the display tank. Fortunately, the design will allow for an overflow weir and plumbing that will be hidden by the hood and chimney.

The following shot provides an "exploded view" of the rear of the tank, where you can see the weir and the hood / chimney that will surround the weir and plumbing;
Image

As you can see, the stand will have holes cut to allow the plumbing to feed directly into the sump.

A close up of the weir / overflow (please note that the rear wall of the weir is not on yet - I'm about add the plumbing to the diagram) from the rear of the tank;
Image

At this point, I expect that we are going to use a slightly modified version of Bean Animal's overflow system;

Image

The difference being that our pipes will actually come up from underneath and into the overflow box, which sits on the back of the tank.

The sump is going to be nearly as large as the display tank (100 litres) and is likely to have three chambers;

1. An intake chamber / skimmer chamber (Tunze 9002)
2. A return chamber
3. A refugium chamber with DSB, Live Rock and Algae

Image

We are struggling at the moment to keep the asthetics of the tank / stand in the dimensions that we would like. We are currently investigating the potential to have the sump placed on a tray that can be pulled out of the stand for easy access;

If this works, then the sump could be pulled out to a position similar to the one shown in this photo;
Image

So that's about it for now. I think that we are pretty close to finalising the design and sending it off to have the tank built, but before I do I wanted to intive other people's thoughts and expressions.

Oh nearly forgot, the display tank is going to be all Starphire glass, while the sump will be 1/4 inch thick acrylic!

So - who has some thoughts and / or critisisms ?

P.S. A big thank you to all the reefers on this site who have invested blood, sweat and tears and shared their sucesses and woes with us all. It's a great comunnity and one that I hope to get settled into in the near future.
Last edited by callummc1 on Tue 11 Jan, 2011 12:31 am, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: Floating Tank Design - Thoughts and critique invited.

Postby rnscross » Sat 18 Dec, 2010 4:48 pm

what are you doing for circulation if you want the DT to look crisp?
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Re: Floating Tank Design - Thoughts and critique invited.

Postby JacksonLee » Sat 18 Dec, 2010 4:58 pm

Wow, looks like its going to be a great project, make sure you start a tank journal for it!
oh and :welcome:
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Re: Floating Tank Design - Thoughts and critique invited.

Postby callummc1 » Sat 18 Dec, 2010 5:07 pm

rnscross wrote:what are you doing for circulation if you want the DT to look crisp?


Water will be pulled from the weir bia the Beananimal overflow solution (which is hopefully as silent as everyone says it is - is anyone here running one of these?) into the sump, the water will be pumped back into the tank via some returns that will be drilled into the base / rear of the tank (the chimney area) which will allow the returns to be hidden.

If it works out that there is not enough flow, we can put a nano powerhead into the top of the overflow towards the back of the tank. As you can see, the tank is virtually sealed, but water rises up into the overflow which sits an inch or so above the tank. By putting it up the top towards the back of the tank it will be covered by the hood and only viewable when looking directly at the tank (and slightly upwards).

The plumbing is the part that I'm really working on at the moment, so I'm interested in people's thoughts as to how this should be approached.
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Re: Floating Tank Design - Thoughts and critique invited.

Postby JacksonLee » Sat 18 Dec, 2010 5:11 pm

the best thing for flow would be vortechs, no wires in the tank then
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Re: Floating Tank Design - Thoughts and critique invited.

Postby n0rk » Sat 18 Dec, 2010 5:13 pm

Or a true closed loop...
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Re: Floating Tank Design - Thoughts and critique invited.

Postby callummc1 » Sat 18 Dec, 2010 5:15 pm

JacksonLee wrote:Wow, looks like its going to be a great project, make sure you start a tank journal for it!
oh and :welcome:


Thanks Jackson - we kind of hope so.

As soon as we get out of the design phase I think that both of us will have seperate tank journals (I'm also thinking of building one for my father - see if I can coach him back into the habit :wink: ), so I'll repost the design pictures etc to a tank journal when we start them up.

And thanks for the welcome.

P.S. Love your rainbow ric.
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Re: Floating Tank Design - Thoughts and critique invited.

Postby callummc1 » Sat 18 Dec, 2010 5:19 pm

JacksonLee wrote:the best thing for flow would be vortechs, no wires in the tank then


Yeah - I have considered it, but I really want to try and avoid there being *any* man made item visible in the display tank.

At the end of the day - i suppose it depends on what type of flow I can manage.
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Re: Floating Tank Design - Thoughts and critique invited.

Postby callummc1 » Sat 18 Dec, 2010 5:22 pm

n0rk wrote:Or a true closed loop...


Correct me if I am wrong (I'm still very much the newbie here), but this is pretty close to a full closed loop. The only difference is that I'll be sucking the water out of the overflow (meaning that I'll be getting the benefit of catching a lot of the scum that forms on the surface), the water is still going to be returned to the tank directly from the bottom or the rear pillar (chimney).

Or is there something else that I'm missing about a closed loop?
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Re: Floating Tank Design - Thoughts and critique invited.

Postby n0rk » Sat 18 Dec, 2010 5:28 pm

In going from the weir you leave yourself open to dramas with it functionally having the capacity to run dry - and more scum means more maintenance in cleaning it :)
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Re: Floating Tank Design - Thoughts and critique invited.

Postby callummc1 » Sat 18 Dec, 2010 5:36 pm

n0rk wrote:In going from the weir you leave yourself open to dramas with it functionally having the capacity to run dry - and more scum means more maintenance in cleaning it :)


Yeah - I'm aware of the maintenance factor... I just wanted to avoid having too many intakes / returns in the tank itself. A lot of the time it means that you are limited in your aquascaping as you have to hide the pipes / returns.

Aquascaping is really going to be a big part of this tank.... asthetics, asthetics, asthetics. My better half will likely drive me out of the house if it looks ugly in any way.

I'm going to have an auto-topoff in the sump, so hopefully there shouldn't be any problems with the weir drying up.
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Re: Floating Tank Design - Thoughts and critique invited.

Postby callummc1 » Sat 18 Dec, 2010 5:44 pm

Random thought - I noticed that the tank journals are split into several sections with "Nano / Pico" being less than 100 litres.

This tank will hold around 98 litres I think - although the sump will be almost as big (but will hold less water as the waterline will be lower and space will be required for sand, rock, equipment etc).

Does that still qualify as a "nano"? Is it display only? or display + sump?
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Re: Floating Tank Design - Thoughts and critique invited.

Postby JacksonLee » Sat 18 Dec, 2010 5:48 pm

not too sure, at a guess id say its display size.
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Re: Floating Tank Design - Thoughts and critique invited.

Postby n0rk » Sat 18 Dec, 2010 6:05 pm

Yes, it is still a nano. If you're concerned about inlets being a problem, have a single outlet hidden in the back wall or base, then run a SCWD/Oceansmotions or similar to generate flow in alternating directions.
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Re: Floating Tank Design - Thoughts and critique invited.

Postby callummc1 » Sat 18 Dec, 2010 6:23 pm

n0rk wrote:Yes, it is still a nano. If you're concerned about inlets being a problem, have a single outlet hidden in the back wall or base, then run a SCWD/Oceansmotions or similar to generate flow in alternating directions.


Scare me - what's that going to cost? Have you got a product link?
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Re: Floating Tank Design - Thoughts and critique invited.

Postby nUm » Sat 18 Dec, 2010 6:26 pm

http://www.oceansmotions.com/store/product_info.php?products_id=37&osCsid=004e65d025199afaac298b879a0d5b83

SCWDs are around from a few retailers, normally around $100 from memory.

The OM would be a better option than SCWD, they have a tendency to stuff up and waste a lot of water flow to create the movement between the 2 outlets.

Cheers,

Jason
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Re: Floating Tank Design - Thoughts and critique invited.

Postby callummc1 » Sat 18 Dec, 2010 6:46 pm

nUm wrote:http://www.oceansmotions.com/store/product_info.php?products_id=37&osCsid=004e65d025199afaac298b879a0d5b83

SCWDs are around from a few retailers, normally around $100 from memory.

The OM would be a better option than SCWD, they have a tendency to stuff up and waste a lot of water flow to create the movement between the 2 outlets.

Cheers,

Jason


Brilliant - this is just what I need. Although I must say that I like the idea ofthe SCWD as they don't require an extra power source - my electricity bill was $700 for the last quater, without a tank !
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Re: Floating Tank Design - Thoughts and critique invited.

Postby JacksonLee » Sat 18 Dec, 2010 6:59 pm

one thing to be careful of with the scwd is you need to have quite a fine filter on the inlet as even the smallest bit of sand or dirt will jam them up. I have one of the 25mm scwds on my closed loop and i got sick of cleaning out the pre-filter at least once a week and ended up taking out the internals, leaving me with a damn expensive tee piece. if you dont mind the maintenance involved though they work damn good, although you need to upsize your pump by about 15% to make up for the flow lost from friction and back pressure. Also make sure you are getting one of the newer models with the screw off top otherwise you have to remove the whole scwd to clean it out.
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Re: Floating Tank Design - Thoughts and critique invited.

Postby n0rk » Sat 18 Dec, 2010 7:04 pm

Yep, for the extra power you need to run the SCWD in terms of pump loss you're beyond Oceansmotions territory anyway.
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Re: Floating Tank Design - Thoughts and critique invited.

Postby callummc1 » Sat 18 Dec, 2010 7:22 pm

JacksonLee wrote:one thing to be careful of with the scwd is you need to have quite a fine filter on the inlet as even the smallest bit of sand or dirt will jam them up. I have one of the 25mm scwds on my closed loop and i got sick of cleaning out the pre-filter at least once a week and ended up taking out the internals, leaving me with a damn expensive tee piece. if you dont mind the maintenance involved though they work damn good, although you need to upsize your pump by about 15% to make up for the flow lost from friction and back pressure. Also make sure you are getting one of the newer models with the screw off top otherwise you have to remove the whole scwd to clean it out.


n0rk wrote:Yep, for the extra power you need to run the SCWD in terms of pump loss you're beyond Oceansmotions territory anyway.


So you guys would really advocate the Oceansmotions, huh ?

Any idea how much noise it makes? I want to try and keep this tank virtually silent.
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Re: Floating Tank Design - Thoughts and critique invited.

Postby JacksonLee » Sat 18 Dec, 2010 7:25 pm

i havent seen one working in person, but cant imagine it making too much noise considering its just a small dc motor.
Id put money on the closed loop pump or skimmer being louder than it anyway.
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Re: Floating Tank Design - Thoughts and critique invited.

Postby callummc1 » Sat 18 Dec, 2010 8:07 pm

JacksonLee wrote:i havent seen one working in person, but cant imagine it making too much noise considering its just a small dc motor.
Id put money on the closed loop pump or skimmer being louder than it anyway.


I've picked the Tunze 9002 for it's reputation for being extremely quiet / almost silent and I'm not sure at this stage what we will be doing for a return pump, but extremely low noise is definately going to be high on the list.

Speaking of pumps and flow, this will be a 100 litre tank - what should I be looking for in terms of cycling? I've seen a great deal of difference with some tanks being completely cycled 10 - 30 times an hour and others that are cycled far less or far more frequently.

Any thoughts?
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Re: Floating Tank Design - Thoughts and critique invited.

Postby JacksonLee » Sat 18 Dec, 2010 8:11 pm

what kinds of corals are you looking to keep? That will ultimately decide on how much flow you will need.
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Re: Floating Tank Design - Thoughts and critique invited.

Postby callummc1 » Sat 18 Dec, 2010 8:18 pm

JacksonLee wrote:what kinds of corals are you looking to keep? That will ultimately decide on how much flow you will need.


Well, a bit of everything really. However it's going to be a very minimalist style tank. A couple of piles of rock with a mixture of hard and sofft corals and 4-6 small fish.

Bear in mind that it's only 38x12x12, so there is not a huge amount of stock that can go in it.
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Re: Floating Tank Design - Thoughts and critique invited.

Postby callummc1 » Sun 19 Dec, 2010 12:09 am

I'm considering an Eheim Compact Plus 2000 - does anyone own one of these, can they attest to the noise (or lack of it?).
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Re: Floating Tank Design - Thoughts and critique invited.

Postby JacksonLee » Sun 19 Dec, 2010 12:13 am

im not sure about that exact model, but every eheim ive ever owned from the big models to the smaller ones has been dead quiet.
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Re: Floating Tank Design - Thoughts and critique invited.

Postby callummc1 » Sun 19 Dec, 2010 12:30 am

JacksonLee wrote:im not sure about that exact model, but every eheim ive ever owned from the big models to the smaller ones has been dead quiet.



Jackson - do you sleep?

Great to hear though. I need to start building a spreadsheet to work out what this is actually going to cost. Then again, maybe not :)
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Re: Floating Tank Design - Thoughts and critique invited.

Postby JacksonLee » Sun 19 Dec, 2010 12:41 am

haha, im over in wa so its not that late here, plus im stuck in on a saturday night cos of work so nothing better to do than browse forums! sad i know :roflmao:
As for keeping track of costs, dont do it! It will only depress you
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Re: Floating Tank Design - Thoughts and critique invited.

Postby callummc1 » Sun 19 Dec, 2010 2:50 pm

Has anyone done their plumbing with flexible hoses?

I know that most of it is usually done with PVC, but I'm looking for a way to put the sump on a rolling shelf so that it can be pulled out from the cabinet and it occured to me that it could be tricky with inflexible PVC pipes.
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Re: Floating Tank Design - Thoughts and critique invited.

Postby mattgreen » Sun 19 Dec, 2010 3:52 pm

i love the fluval edge tanks will be an interesting build
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