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Advice for breeding startup

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Advice for breeding startup

Postby millotoli » Wed 04 May, 2016 10:40 pm

Thanks to the podcast I want to have a crack at breeding some fish again,
I say again, as I spent ages researching, not because I tried,.. It all sounded too hard

But I think I have the time now.


My question,
To start your own line of designers,
Where do you start
Black and white cross perc?
Or do you have to buy Picasso, helmet etc pairs ??
And where can you buy a pair?

Cheers
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Re: Advice for breeding startup

Postby Jimmy656 » Thu 05 May, 2016 11:21 am

Hey mate. I follow aqua_tank_girl on Instagram. She has bread a whole heaps of clowns. If you have an account check it out, she just recently bread snow flake clowns, I believe they are called. She has a clownfish Harem but also has separate tanks for breeding using clay pots.
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Re: Advice for breeding startup

Postby bimborocks » Thu 05 May, 2016 12:13 pm

if you want to breed a particular type of clowns - Picasso or helmet etc then you would want a pair of that colour and they should breed pretty true. If you wanted to start your own variety then have a goal in mind - ie say all white, all black, particular pattern, find some with some of the traits you are working towards and then with each generation of babies pick the ones that have the most desirable traits and breed from them etc. With each generation you should be getting closer and closer to your goal.
I have seen well priced 'designer' clowns from Photon Flakes Clownfish on Facebook.
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Re: Advice for breeding startup

Postby millotoli » Thu 05 May, 2016 7:50 pm

Thanks for the feedback,

Yes I would like to create my own strain,

I have / had a pair from photon clown,
Awesome guys and fish!!!

I do hear breeders desex the fish though,

I'll look up the Instagram as well.

Cheers again
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Re: Advice for breeding startup

Postby NewyReefer » Thu 05 May, 2016 8:00 pm

Wow i knew dog breeders desexed them but didn't know that about fish... Interested to know if you find out more info.
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Re: Advice for breeding startup

Postby bimborocks » Thu 05 May, 2016 8:12 pm

millotoli wrote:Thanks for the feedback,

Yes I would like to create my own strain,

I have / had a pair from photon clown,
Awesome guys and fish!!!

I do hear breeders desex the fish though,

I'll look up the Instagram as well.

Cheers again


Some hybrids will be sterile but the only practical way to 'desex' a fish would be chemically and I very much doubt it happens regularly here in Oz
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Re: Advice for breeding startup

Postby millotoli » Thu 05 May, 2016 8:51 pm

I haven't heard of anyone specifically

Rather it was a general comment about fish breeders, to protect their lines
I heard chemical


I could be totally wrong, I didn't question it as it made sense
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Re: Advice for breeding startup

Postby CaptCrash » Thu 05 May, 2016 11:34 pm

Congratulations on giving it a go.
Im happy to answer any questions as best I can.

I have read accounts of fish being sterile post a copper treatment, if significant amount of copper is used. However I would think that this would be a really risky option. Whilst there may be people that do things like this, its fairly pointless and stupid. Especially with a tank full of juvi fish.
I think its more likely innuendo that people put forward about them being sterilised, but thats just my opinion.

In general a new strain is protection enough. Eg. Once you achieve a stable colour pattern, its taken a few years. For someone to purchase a couple of juveniles, grow them up and compete with your strain, its 2-3 years most likely, before the pair will even lay. So you have significant protection from when you release your strain anyway.

In terms of breeding a new strain of clowns, that will take a lot of work.
In essence what you need to do it breed for a specific trait, e.g. Lots of blue.
As you get generations, cross the better ones back with the adults or with siblings with similar lots of blue colouration.
After a few/many generations, you get the result you are looking for a blue clownfish.
Do keep in mind, it takes a year or so for a clownfish to become a sexually mature male and longer for a female (more growing and conditioning time needed). So we are talking about a few to quite a few years of effort.

If you haven't breed any clowns before, I would start by raising a few batches and getting the hang of the process first.
It will be much lower cost as you can generally get any adult pair to lay, by providing good conditions, water temp, regular lighting and an abundance of food. This will be faster as they are already adult and all your really need to do is to condition them to lay regularly. Or purchase pairs that are already laying regularly.
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Re: Advice for breeding startup

Postby NewyReefer » Fri 06 May, 2016 10:03 am

Awesome info!

Have you tried doing your own strain Capt?
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Re: Advice for breeding startup

Postby CaptCrash » Fri 06 May, 2016 12:48 pm

No it's not really my thing.
I prefer to keep the lines going as they are. Ironically, it's the exact same process.
Just with the opposite result
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Re: Advice for breeding startup

Postby Onsan » Fri 06 May, 2016 2:27 pm

Yeah, developing your own strain is a long term proposition, years of work and a fair bit of luck.
I bred the Darwin occies, and although there were miss bars they tended toward being less white, so if I held on long enough I could maybe have bred an all black occie but I don't think they're would have been much of a market. (maybe kiwis? All Blacks).
You also don't really know which of the parents carried the trait, if it was the female, great breeding the miss barred male back with the mum would reduce the generation period, but if its the male you have to wait for the clown to mature to female, same to with breeding with siblings.
As crash said, get into it first and work out out from there.
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Re: Advice for breeding startup

Postby millotoli » Fri 06 May, 2016 4:13 pm

Thanks

I understand it's long term,
And highly unlikely I'll follow through,
But thought, if I went in with a goal, for example, lightning clowns, I know I want to start with black and white, and ...?

Or if I aim for piccaso I find percs...?

Etc
Or if I go a black and White cross percs I cpuld expect...?

If you get my meaning.

It would just guide my plan.
As to setups, I will read through some journals and get my questions together
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Re: Advice for breeding startup

Postby Onsan » Fri 06 May, 2016 4:32 pm

My plan when I did it was pretty simple, survival rates.
Just learning the techniques you need to do to get good hatch rates, early survivals on live feeds, then getting them on to prepared feeds and final saleable survival rates is a pretty good goal, i think.
Second was colouration, which for the black and whites is about diets.
If you can get good success rates here, then you've provided a basis for the rest of the stuff you've mentioned to fall into place.
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Re: Advice for breeding startup

Postby millotoli » Fri 06 May, 2016 4:57 pm

Haha yes, I agree
I may not even successfully raise a batch.
But if I know what I want to end up with , I can start looking for certain pairs to start breeding

I am researching everything I can re breeding,
I guess the less available info is how where certain strains started
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Re: Advice for breeding startup

Postby CaptCrash » Fri 06 May, 2016 5:23 pm

This is probably a good start for you http://clowncalc.nolapete.com.
Further detail here http://www.mbisite.org/Forums/tm.aspx?h ... ge=1#95554

It lets you enter in pair types and look at the expected results.
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Re: Advice for breeding startup

Postby millotoli » Fri 06 May, 2016 5:36 pm

Thank you kindly

I'm not going in expecting it will be easy and I will just end up with designer clowns. :)
I was just curious about starting strains. More for my info. Iv been around long enough to know nothing is just that easy lol

I am excited to learn what to do, learn how to raise them, watch my success rates go from 0 to 10 to 100
It feels like a great challenge. And who knows where it will lead me, probably ooze the rest of my hair. :roflmao:

Another question, I am building a room in my shed at the office for some tanks, so I was thinking to put them there, so I can look after them during the day, is that going to be more beneficial then having them at home ?
I'm 7:30am - 5pm at office
5-pm - 10 bed at home

Will I hit problems ?
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Re: Advice for breeding startup

Postby CaptCrash » Fri 06 May, 2016 5:53 pm

I would go with a space at home.

The reason being is that once they start to hatch, then you need to be there to collect them. So going to work at 10-11pm to check if fry have hatched is painful.
During the day, you want to feed them and leave them alone. No distractions for the fish, so the quieter the area the better.
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Re: Advice for breeding startup

Postby millotoli » Sat 07 May, 2016 3:51 pm

so assuming I can't do it at home, as my missus only agreed to it as it was at the office.

The shed is quiet, it just to store my tools and materials, so disturbing them won't be a problem,

However your other point is one to think about,
How well can you work out the night of hatching? Do you have to check nightly, or do you time it?
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Re: Advice for breeding startup

Postby CaptCrash » Sat 07 May, 2016 6:25 pm

They hatch every 14 days ish once they become regular. So that part is not to hard.

To collect the fry you need to remove the eggs and place in a hatching vessel the night of the hatch. This way is probably be what you will need to do, it will require an air pump to agitate the eggs over night.

Leaving fry in a fry catcher overnight tends to lead to dead fry.
It's workable, but I never had any success with this process, others prefer it.
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Re: Advice for breeding startup

Postby mrbailey » Mon 26 Sep, 2016 10:09 pm

I know that this is a little off-thread, but I have just had a read through.

None of our fish have or ever will have any treatment to make them infertile, this would go against everything we started breeding designer clowns for... To see them spread and become more common in Australia.

If you want to make your own strain, I'd encourage you to breed from fish that you know the pedigree of.

Just an FYI to the conversation, clown hybrids are perfectly fertile. As are their resulting offspring.
Follow my snowflake breeding project on Facebook:
https://www.facebook.com/pages/Photon-Flakes-Clownfish/189376871222914
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